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| MASADA vs. MASADA https://intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4196 |
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| Author: | Douglass Fake [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | MASADA vs. MASADA |
Just some tidbits to go alongside all of the facts, rumors and guesses as to what's what between the two versions of MASADA. Though it's been mentioned that Jerry used a "larger" orchestra for his re-recording, actually the number of players on both the actual soundtrack recorded at Universal Studios and the re-recording done in London are actually comparable. Another point of interest is that the original album, which I certainly love, and though recorded at Abbey Road, had a somewhat shrill sound that was amplified during the LP mastering sessions, and further plagued (in my opinion) by an excess of reverb. In particular, the final album track ("The Slaves") becomes almost unbearable in the climactic fortissimo. Subsequent mastering for the Varese CD seemed to make these anomalies even more prominent. The licensors for each respective version is entirely different, though the Universal connection may confuse people. Universal Music Group owns the re-recording (not Varese) and NBC Universal owns the soundtrack. Yes - we could have made a separate deal with UMG to include the album re-recording, but it would have added another year to the negotiations and would have required a totally separate licensing agreement, adding another $15-20 to the retail price. The final product would be selling upwards of $50 a set. That - added with the fact that most of our target customers would already have the re-recording - in my opinion made a three-disc set impractical and perhaps even un-necessary. Besides the obvious differences in length (37 minute re-recording vs. two and a half hour original), and our inclusion of Morton Stevens' magnificent portion, I find the original soundtrack appealing in comparison because it offers several action cues, all of which were deleted during Jerry's London re-recording sessions. On a project as big and as exciting as MASADA, I want to hear this guy going gangbusters with those ferocious action cues only he could write. For me, "The Granary" is up there with "Raisuli Attacks" from THE WIND AND THE LION. What a rush! For me, this is a pretty big plus that you can now enjoy only with the actual soundtrack. As Jon Burlingame's notes explain, Jerry actually wrote his fanfares, the mime sequence and the Roman march while doing "pre-records" during filming on location in Israel, then recorded them back at Universal as well. The march is particularly cool because he scored it for trumpets, French horns, woodwinds and percussion only, and the main melody in it ultimately became one of his two primary themes for the entire score. It was especially interesting to mix because almost every instrument had its own track on the 2" masters. "The Mime" is a particularly attractive piece Jerry wrote (and orchestrated himself) for woodwinds, two horns, harp, antique cymbals, chimes and a few other percussion instruments that brings some unique color to the score. And none of this nifty stuff was included on the LP either. But the BIGGEST difference between the two versions, length and Morton Stevens notwithstanding, is quite simply the performance: Yes, the London sessions are world class BUT the trombones and tuba throughout this score are crisper and more pronounced with the Universal Studio orchestra. Low brass is essential to this score. One last teeny weenie curio: at the end of "Road To Masada" on the re-recording ("Move On" on Jerry's manuscripts), the brief trumpet solo plays open, but in the actual soundtrack performance it's played with a straight mute. I always thought it was because the player in London forgot to use a mute, but that's just a totally random thought with no basis in fact. Us trumpet players just notice these things. Unlike many of Jerry's re-recordings, with MASADA he essentially worked with his actual scores and did little adaptation for re-recording the nine cues he selected. So you can actually play those same nine cues pretty much intact on our soundtrack version and re-create the LP experience... happily with crisper low brass performances! Most of you will enjoy being able to own both versions. But if you can only have one version... well, you know which one I'd vote for. --Doug |
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| Author: | redokt64 [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
Thank you Doug and the Intrada family for releasing this magnificent score. One of my all time favorites. |
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| Author: | MRAUDIO [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
Thanks, Doug for posting this info - and thanks again for releasing this MASSIVE soundtrack - I hope you sell all 5000 units - it deserves it! Another big "Thanks" for making this your first Intrada Morton Stevens release - here is to more future releases on your label by this truly under-rated and gifted Composer... 
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| Author: | GoblinScore [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
RE: Doug's post - now THAT is how ya sell a soundtrack.....not that I needed selling on this one....but THAT's how ya do it! Kudos bravos and thanks! |
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| Author: | STEVENJ [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
Thanks for the insight. More than thanks for the release. |
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| Author: | crwdfwtx [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
Thanks for this info, Doug. This is fascinating stuff, especially knowing where in particular Jerry was when he came up with certain themes and ideas. A lot of us have lived very close to the re-recording since the first days it came out on LP, so any perceived difference might be heard as a let-down. So having this kind of background will help me listen more intelligently. I was also glad to get the insight into the various rights and licensing challenges. Given the state of affairs with the two separate recordings, I'd much prefer this original soundtrack to come out on its own, and deal with a re-issue of the London recording separately. Sounds like this way is cheaper, too. On a side note, I haven't heard many opinions so far about Morton Stevens's contribution, but what I have heard on the samples sounds pretty great. A few have commented that Steven's sections aren't as involving, but I have really loved what I heard so far. It's pretty thrilling to have an entire 75 minutes of new music built on Jerry's foundation, but which has never been released, and not heard at all very often. It's one of the aspects of this release that I'm looking forward to most. |
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| Author: | George Komar [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
| Author: | ARobertJolleyFilm [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
Mazel tov! I'm so glad this score is finally here. It's an amazing film and one of Hollywood's better attempts at telling a story about Israel that comes close to reality. Thank you Intrada for putting forth such a herculean effort at realizing this release. |
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| Author: | RM Eastman [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
Thank you, Doug, for your explanation of 'Masada" original tracks vs the re-recording. Just a fantastic Intrada release, one inj which I will treasure for the rest of my life. Thank you, again! |
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| Author: | Swashbuckler [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
I never sought out the Varese CD because the I'd heard that there were some mastering issues with it and my LP is still in very good condition. I have to say that while there are some very nice passages on the re-recording, I think that the scope and detail on display on the new version as well as the aforementioned spirited performance, blows it away. I'm not exactly sure how anybody could find the Morton Stevens tracks less engaging. His battle sequences are explosive in their own way, and the music for the finale is chilling. As with Outland, he was working with Goldsmith's material, but he had his own specific style. Here's hoping to hear more of his music in the future!¹ ¹ — This was meant as an appreciative enthusiasm of a particular composer's work who hasn't been well-represented on CD, not as a greedy "okay, we got Masada, what's next?" |
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| Author: | Paul MacLean [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
| Author: | EricsBrain [ Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
Wonderful - as always - but would one expect anything other than near perfection from the combination of Goldsmith/Intrada? Me thinks not. Keep up the most-amazing work. You always have my undivided . . . squirrel! |
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| Author: | Douglass Fake [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
| Author: | MRAUDIO [ Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
| Author: | Douglass Fake [ Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: MASADA vs. MASADA |
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