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| Major Problem with Slipstream http://intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4136 |
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| Author: | Azella [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Major Problem with Slipstream |
Wow, I'm disappointed.  Lukas has said: By: Lukas Kendall (Member) Collectors: This product is illegal, as I suspected from day one but just confirmed: Robin Esterhammer licensed the publishing from the Bernstein estate but never licensed the master or soundtrack rights from the film company. A cease and desist is going out now. Lukas |
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| Author: | Azella [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Slipstream's Trouble |
I've renamed this thread, folks. I don't want the studios getting overwhelmed with word choices. I'd hate to have them get mad at Intrada! 
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| Author: | Azella [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
Lukas has explained this in detail: Posted: Apr 27, 2011 - 5:35 PM By: Lukas Kendall (Member) Hi Folks, Let me tell you the story of the new Slipstream CD...which is now a collector's item. As some of you know, but not Robin Esterhammer, apparently, there is more than one permission needed in order to release a soundtrack CD. You need the soundtrack album rights (typically from the film company), the master rights (the right to the recording that was made of the music, typically from the film company) and the publishing rights (the right to the written compositions of music that were recorded, typically published by a company affiliated with the film company). Usually, you get all these rights from the film company. Slipstream was an atypical case in that the rights to the publishing were given to Elmer Bernstein as part of his deal in scoring the film. Thus Bernstein's estate owns the publishing -- but the soundtrack album rights and master rights (the recording with the London Symphony Orchestra) belong to the film company, Entertainment Film (I think). Having been one of several labels who inquired with the film company for the Slipstream album rights over the years, I knew that their standard answer was "no." I have also known for a long time that Perseverance plays fast and loose with licensing. So when the Slipstream CD was announced, then released, my assumption was that Robin probably discovered that the compositions were owned by Bernstein's estate, licensed that right (and only that right) from the estate and used Elmer's master tapes (now at USC) to make a CD...blithely ignoring the fact that Bernstein's estate did not own the master or soundtrack album rights. Because that's how Robin works (or doesn't work). In recent weeks Robin asked me to help him get some licenses from a studio I've done some work with...and I said no. I said no because I had a sneaking suspicion that Slipstream was not properly licensed, and I could not in good faith recommend that anyone do business with Robin. Robin insisted, blah blah blah, that he had all the Slipstream rights fair and square from the Bernstein estate, I was just bitter (as if I didn't get my Elmer sci-fi fix doing Heavy Metal: The Score). When I finally got the Slipstream CD, and saw the inane way in which he did the copyright notice, I knew that my hunch must be correct—I laid all of this out for Robin like I was talking to a child—and warned him that if he pestered me one more time, I would call the Bernstein estate and without question, they would agree with my assessment that Slipstream was not properly licensed, and they would recall the product. But out of respect, I would not do this if he would just go away. But Robin did not go away. He went over my head to the studio (where I would not help him), who bounced it back to me in "WTF" fashion, and I said I've had enough of this. I called the Bernstein estate, they were apoplectic to discover that Perseverance did not properly license Slipstream, and sent a cease and desist. So if you got one, it's a collector's item. I hope Perseverance packs it in because they give all of us a bad name. Lukas |
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| Author: | T. Newman Fan [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
I'm having a hard time understanding why someone would put their company in jeopardy over this one release. |
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| Author: | Anthony Marose [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
| Author: | Mark Olivarez [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
If he did indeed do this illegally I think he should be run out of business and banned from releasing anymore scores. |
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| Author: | STEVENJ [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
What a Crumb. |
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| Author: | Terry Cloth [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
And in good faith, everyone should turn in their copies of the CD! 
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| Author: | Basil [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
Roger was right the whole time. I don't have any words for this. |
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| Author: | Azella [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
From Robin: Posted: Apr 27, 2011 - 11:15 PM By: Robin Esterhammer (Member) Both Lukas and I were just asked by the lawyer of the Bernstein Estate to stop these postings, and I will agree with that. Not, however, before telling my side of the story. When I first decided to release Slipstream, I contacted Nigel Green's office at Entertainment Films in England. I was told that "this title is not ours" by the lady in his office. I then went to Elmer Bernstein's Estate, who told me they own the PUBLISHING AND the MASTERS, which they would license to me. Lukas, I know you need all the rights to release a soundtrack album. BOTH THEIR LAWYER AND I SIGNED THIS AGREEMENT. I then had the tapes from USC transferred to digital (at my cost) with the permission of the Bernstein Estate. Then, the shit hit the fan. I was openly accused by many people, including Roger Feigelson of Intrada (who nevertheless saw nothing wrong with buying 140 copies of the alleged bootleg) and others, that they were "suspicious" about the legitimacy of the release. I responded, elaborating on the article I wrote in the booklet. Then, a few weeks passed, and I contacted Lukas, who by then had become gatekeeper at Warner Bros, about looking into some release possibilities for me. He responded that he doesn’t feel like recommending me to the execs at WB because Slipstream was a bootleg and that he doesn’t want to do business with me. I wrote back to him, explaining to him pretty much what I am now writing to you. He didn’t believe me. (By the way, he never said to me that he would call the Estate if I didn’t stop bothering him.) I suggested to him to look up the legal notice on the album. (He was right in one point, however: It is not enough to put a © and “Released Under License From Elmer Bernstein Enterprises Inc”. I guess I should have put a (P), as well. Oh well, you live and learn.) He thought this was the proof that I didn’t license this properly! Then he called the Estate’s lawyer, who told him that he would send me a “cease and desist” letter, apparently based on the information LUKAS HAD GIVEN HIM. I was shocked, as this was not the reaction I had expected from someone who had signed a licensing agreement with me. So, I called him. He was apologetic and said that there were two contradicting paragraphs in the licensing agreement that we both should have been aware of. More was said that I am not at liberty to post publicly, however. I took the CD off our Web site, because I wanted to respect with the lawyer’s request, not because I knew I had done something wrong. I contacted the film company’s lawyer to see whether they own the masters to the music. (He didn’t know that, by the way.) If what I had done was illegal, I’d be in court right now. No one is suing anyone. We are in talks about how we can sort this mess out. All parties involved. I have read that a lot of people would never buy a CD from me or trust me ever again. I know that trust has been lost, and I will do everything I can to regain this trust. For the next releases, I will tell you (on my site, for those who are interested) where these licenses came from and how I got them, just so you know that these aren’t bootlegs. I know there were a couple of titles in the past where I should have checked ALL the facts better than how I did it, but I can ascertain you that I will not do this again. I am not a bootlegger, people. I am an honest businessman, who is trying to make people happy. As Lukas, MV, Roger and others can tell you, this is not a big money business. Perseverance has no financial backers or investors. All the money I make from selling these CDs goes right back into the production of new releases. By the way, I am paying royalties on this CD; and I paid a nice advance to the Estate. What bootlegger does that? |
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| Author: | Roger Feigelson [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
I guess no good deed goes unpunished. I didn't accuse him of anything. I just said I was suspicious, but we gave him the benefit of the doubt, especially since he took the time to explain the legitimacy of his release and so we ordered copies to support him and his efforts, succeeding where I had failed. Right now I have no idea which way is up. Roger |
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| Author: | Azella [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
Yeah, I felt it was a cheap jab on his part. Personally, I just want to know what real deal is with the disc. I enjoyed the music, and would hope to hear of all this getting resolved. I just have my doubts it will. |
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| Author: | lawandorder [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
Well this is a shocker but I wasn't surprised somewhat because of the Rain Man issue prior to this which had already put the label in jeopardy to begin with. I personally was a little skeptical about it and I was on a wait and see basis about it. Even with the announcement. If it's true, it's true. It's not, it's not. I'd be disappointed but I would move onto the next thing. No biggie, one day it'll come out. Definitely not the end of the world, as if most people seem to think this is. Which is not and now gives another label an opportunity if one does exist because of the legalities involved, the chance to do it without any legal baggage. The guy messed up or I should say circumvented certain legalities well that's on him and he'll have a lot to answer for legally, fast. If he can settle the issue quickly it's a plus for all involved, and if he can't, end of label. Nice try, good effort. What we have right now is like going to see a magic show. You have a great CD and then poof! You don't. But then it reappears in your CD player. Yes, it can really be considered a collector's item and do you really think that most people think they would return it since they've already shelled out 20 hard earned bucks for it? Probably not. Do they feel cheated? Yes. Do I feel cheated? You bet, but still this shouldn't be the most important thing in your lives. Come on now. If you feel cheated then take it up with him in a polite way. We're heartbroken yes and we'll get over it soon enough with dozens of other releases. The ones who have, treasure it for what it is and for those who feel cheated, there will be plenty of people who would want it regardless because they care about the music and that's the point. It should always be about the music. Speaking of which...go listen to First Knight. That'll give your adrenaline pumping. |
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| Author: | Christian Kühn [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
| Author: | kipling71 [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Major Problem with Slipstream |
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